Turning an urban legend into fact

First question - how much do you know about male prostitution in Vienna in the first decade of the 20th century?

Second question - what could this possibly have to do with the rise of the Nazis to power in Germany in the 1930s?

Third question - does the name Samuel Igra mean anything at all to you?

OK from my perspective. I have spent a long time studying the history of the First World War, the Weimar Republic, the rise of the Nazis to power, and the German Resistance in the Second World War. I am less well up on Austrian history at the turn of the last century, but I am gradually getting there. Despite some things that you might read to the contrary, the break-up of the Austrian Empire in the Eastern part of Europe probably had as a great an impact as anything on the history of the continent in first half of the 20th century, and was the fuse that set off the explosion that was the First World War.

And from the First World War and its aftermath, including the Versailles agreement, the complete reconstruction of the political map in Europe, and the economic difficulties originally stemming from another continent (North America - 1929) arose the Second World War.

That is the text book logic, very briefly stated.

Back to Austria for a moment. It is difficult to believe looking at Austria now - a small, prosperous landlocked country in the centre of the continent - was one of the great powers of Europe for generations. Wars on the continent for centuries revolved around Great Britain, France, Prussia and Austria. In the East the Turkish Ottoman Empire and Russia also had important parts to play.

Prussia eventually became the leader of the combined Germany, Britain and France continued to behave like major powers even when their empires had waned, Austria eventually became what it is now - the days of Imperial glory behind it, a small prosperous country in the centre of Europe.

Not that getting there was that easy. Apart from losing its Empire, Austria also had already lost its place as the leader of the German states. When the combined Germany was on the horizon, the military might of Prussia crushed the Austrians at the Battle of Sadowa in 1866.

Left behind were fond memories of what might have been, and this was to leave an often bitter impact on many.

Not least on Austria's possibly least favourite son ever.

OK still wondering why I asked the questions at the beginning and then ignored them?

Good, we are back together. We needed the scene setting first though.

Anyway pick a historian to give you details on the rise of Hitler, the Nazis and the coming of the Second World War. Alan Bullock, Hugh Trevor-Roper, William L. Shirer. Maybe Erwin Leiser, a Swedish journalist, whose Jewish family fled Berlin in 1938, and who went on to produce the documentary film "Mein Kampf" in 1960.

All very good if you want what would seem relevant on detail and historical events and consequences.

Then there is Samuel Igra.

For most people who have studied the history of WW2, the names I quoted previously are probably well-known. Igra though is an obscurity.

Unless you are one of a number of American Christian Conservatives (not all of them incidentally, but a few on the extreme), and then it might not be such a new name.

In 1945 (before the events that had turned the world had even finished) Igra produced a book that is totally different from anything you would get from the accredited writers named above.

The book was called "Germany's National Vice", and the essential basis of it was that the rise of the Nazis came down not to chronic nationalism or the needs for empire, or any master race theory, or to regain lands lost in the East of Europe for German speaking peoples, or ....

No. The fundamental driving force that brought the Nazis to power was ..... homosexuality!

Since this work, a cottage industry has developed working on Igra's theory. I am not sure whether this is in Igra's work, but we then from these "believers" get Hitler being a male prostitute in Vienna in the years between 1908 and 1913 (as he allegedly "confirmed to a room-mate in the pension where he was staying"), his "obvious relationship" with Ernst Röhm, the known homosexual head of the SA who was assassinated on the "Night of the Long Knives" in 1934 (which itself was completely a cover for the party being a homosexual coven founded in a Gay bar in Munich in 1923), the SA being an exclusively Gay organisation usw usw usw.

Nothing to do with power, nationalism or Lebensraum. Nothing to do with revenge for the stab-in-the-back leading to Germany's humiliation and defeat in 1918 usw.

Urban legend run wild. Interesting that Shirer, who worked for Hearst publications in Germany from 1934 to 1940 and observed how the Nazis took over power and ran their ruthless régime, never noticed this!

Also strange how large numbers of Gay bars disappeared from sight after the Nazi seizure of power in 1933, how an athlete like Otto Peltzer and a tennis player (and Wimbledon finalist), Gottfried von Cramm were persecuted for their behaviour, and some 15,000 to 25,000 male homosexuals suffered the same fate as the Jews and the Roma in concentration camps - strange at least if the theory that the Nazis were primarily a homosexual movement is true.

Igra was an orthodox, deeply religious Jew, and he held pretty much the same opinion on Gays and their behaviour that is held by the ultraconservative believers in the US. Homosexuality is evil, the Nazis were evil, put the two together ....

If you want a text book example of this thinking try reading the following work which I came across on the Web the other day:

http://www.logisticresearch.com/Michael_Johnson_on_Naziism.pdf

This starts out reading like a highly intelligent academic thesis (and realise that the author has a Ph. D.), wends its way through a series of well-researched references, then starts to define Gay behaviour in stereotypical fashion and ends up with a diatribe upon the danger that they are to civilised society.

Personally I first developed an interest in what happened in Germany from 1914 to 1945 from the works of Erwin Leiser (see also above). He was also Jewish, though perhaps not as orthodox as Igra. Drawing upon a wealth of material some 15 years after the war in 1960 he produced the film "Mein Kampf" (large parts of which are still available upon YouTube - the film is grainy, the commentary in German and the sound has not stood the test of time. Nonetheless it is worth the time to watch it). This is a strictly orthodox political analysis of Hitler and his rise to power. And in my opinion far more credible.

As one example I will quote (from the English translation of his book on the film)  regarding the Night of the Long Knives.

"However, the SA, under the leadership of First World War officer, Ernst Röhm, was developing into a power within the state independent of the army. In June 1934, in order to prevent conflict between these two powerful groups Hitler had Röhm and many of his party friends shot in Munich".

To be added at this point, it was not just the SA leadership who were assassinated. On the same night the leaders of the Socialist wing of the party, the Strasserites who wanted to see Germany as a "workers' state" (but a non-Bolshevik "workers state")  were also assassinated, as Hitler's conservative business backers saw them as a danger. There may well have been "good" political reasons for the assassination of Gregor Straßer in particular - putting them into a "Gay context" is on the other hand very difficult.

One of the problems over the years researching Hitler's rise to power was the seeming shortage of information in the years before the First World War. Up to this week I was prepared to acknowledge that this shortage still was the case. Not any more.

I would recommend instead:

http://schikelgruber.net/

On his time in Vienna (1908 - 1913):

http://schikelgruber.net/vienna.html

On his time in Munich (1913 - 1914) and the First World War

http://schikelgruber.net/war.html

And on Hitler being Gay (if you have children under the age of 18 please do not let them read this, or if you are under 18 yourself, please do not read it - it contains references that may be disturbing. Adults of a sensitive disposition should also avoid it):

http://schikelgruber.net/homo.html

This is like a lifetime's work, and the devotion to research is intense. Details on the author can be found on the site. It is worth noting that he does not just present details of what he perceives to be facts, he also presents rumours and dismisses them only if the evidence looks dubious. I agree with his conclusions in the final piece on Hitler's homosexuality incidentally - that he was far removed from being Gay and actually detested homosexual men at least. These arguments are extremely lucid, clearly thought out and appear to have been shaped by the evidence - and the fact that male homosexuals were widely pursued in Nazi Germany tends to underline this.

The problem with urban legends meanwhile is that they gather a life of their own and eventually reach the point where the rumour displaces the fact. That they also often suit a particular agenda though is a much more serious concern. We should regard history as a series of facts and learn from them and not as a convenient tool through which people can pursue future policy for their own ends to the detriment of everyone else.

Update (1.12.2021) - unfortunately all the links to schikelgruber.net have disappeared from the Web. The site has disappeared entirely and a whole wealth of knowledge and research with it. Not merely sad, but suspicious. Erasure of carefully researched facts - whose interest does that serve?
 

Health issues - or do we realise how lucky we are?

During the recent winter transfer window in European football (North American = soccer), the German football club, Hannover 96, signed a young midfielder from Brazil called Franca.

More a prospect than an instant star, it was still surprising that he was nowhere to be seen in Hannover's line-up immediately after his arrival. Apparently he wasn't well, so obviously he could not play.

Yesterday we found out what his illness was - he has tuberculosis (TB).

Skip for the moment that he must have passed the medical, TB and all (it does not suddenly hit you two days after you have arrived here) in order to sign the contract, and come to the more significant question - when was the last time you heard of anyone in a major European country who had TB?

As a child growing up in England, I was obliged to have all sorts of injections against all sorts of nasty illnesses that affect people - diphtheria, polio, TB, you name it. You would line up to have a needle put in your arm and had to be careful for days afterwards that you didn't bang your arm where you had been immunised.

Growing up in a working-class community in the North of England though, legends still abounded on how whole communities had been affected on the 20s and 30s by the ravages of the diseases that broke out and ran riot through the areas for days. The often insanitary conditions which existed in these communities helped (apparently) to spread the disease, but even more affluent areas were still impacted. Walk round graveyards in certain towns some time - you will see whole families buried together - all with the dates or deaths falling together in a very short period of time.

Thanks to the immunisation programmes that have become almost a state-imposed obligation (anyone seriously want to object?), these ravages are, here at least, a thing of the past.

Apparently not so in Brazil, unfortunately, and probably in many other countries of the world.

 The hope would be that we would wish to end the spread of these diseases everywhere in the world. Surely people in the poorer, less developed countries of the world would not want to see their children dying in immense pain in wretched conditions from an awful illness. Would they?

Allow militant Islam to raise its ugly head.

See the following stories from Nigeria:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/08/polio-workers-nigeria-shot-dead

and Pakistan:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/18/polio-vaccination-workers-shot-pakistan

for starters.

These are not the only instances, but they are the most prominent examples.

Most Muslims do not agree with the murderers in these cases? I would expect that to be the case (and some of my critics in the Muslim world can stop shouting at me "Tony, we are not all that bad, now let us pray").

That anyone though would subscribe to a belief system (and I know that there are fundamentalist Christian sects that oppose immunisation) which would let their children die in terrible suffering from summat that can be stopped strikes me as amazing. And absurd! It is not simply the idiocy of the fanatical version of the belief system and the brainwashing involved that is open to criticism here - it is the sheer stupidity and inhumanity of the individuals concerned that is fully worth the strongest condemnation from the rest of us.

One could almost go as far as saying that the children are being murdered by the parents' ignorance and stupidity!

The rest of us meanwhile can go on being thankful that we have made such progress in continuing to combat such diseases in the past 70 years. Progress is still possible to improve things still further though, and letting down our guard and not maintaining the high standards that we have set must simply never be allowed to happen - however bad the economic situation gets.

Heart attack awareness - a perspective

This is a slightly abbreviated version of what I wrote in Facebook today (in an apparently dormant group called "Heart Attack Awareness"). For the people who read my blog and think that at times that I am too negative (not true, you are missing the point, we can only get things right if we acknowledge where things have gone wrong and change them), this is positive and upbeat. Where heart attack survivors are concerned, we need positive messages sent out.

"in May this year it will be 5 years since I had my heart attack. I take all the medicine that I am recommended to take, I do what my doctor tells me, and I do not eat or drink anything that is not recommended, or only in limited amounts as permitted.

Every check-up in the past few years has been good news and getting better. I am very fit, very healthy, the bypass has done its job, life is almost normal (and where it isn't that is down to the problems with the world economy not my health).

It can be done, we can get there, you can survive a heart attack and a bypass operation and live to tell the tale. And we should advise others to have regular check-ups and have a sensible diet so that they can reduce the risk of ever having heart problems".

Interview with the author - part 4

Int: welcome back to the interview, the final part, and sorry if you're tired of commercials for Bitburger and Volkswagen.

OK "innovative solutions"?

me: I am not sure that they are innovative solutions, they are more a repeat of what other people have said. Strange for me to be agreeing with a religious leader, but a few years ago the Archbishop of Canterbury told then UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair, summat like there was too much emphasis upon making  money and we needed to get back to "making things"!

I agree entirely. I cannot see why we cannot make DVD players, electric razors and the like in Europe. What was needed as long ago as 1979 was industrial regeneration, we got instead industrial wipeout. The move to a mainly service based industry has been to our detriment, we need to get back to full production of the goods we need in Europe, not imported as cheap junk from China. And we should be dealing totally with countries that are fully fledged democracies, where manufacturing workers have rights and good conditions in which to work.

Int: you have raised the issues the issues on China before, do you want to repeat them?

me: see the article dated August 1st, 2012 called "Trading issues with the Chinese" - it covers all the bases.

Int: won't this drive up the cost of living though?

me: yes, in the short-term. Goods will cost more but more people will be working, so there will be more money in circulation, so more goods will be bought as a result. If you invest particularly in areas where there are serious unemployment problems, it will raise the standard of living very quickly. Less money will be needed from the public purse to maintain them, and other businesses will benefit through making greater sales. They in turn will employ more people usw.

Int: isn't there a risk of inflation though?

me: similar to that caused by gouging in the petroleum industry, one of the biggest cartels going? Maybe, but it is a risk worth taking. There is nowt better a government (or an association of governments like the EU) can do than getting as many people back to meaningful work as possible - and not underemployment NB.

Int: this won't go down well in Asia.

me: in China, maybe, but we have allowed them for years to become the second biggest economy in the world by cheating on all the regulations that apply elsewhere ....

Anyway countries like Thailand and to an extent South Korea, both democracies where workers do have rights, have suffered from the Chinese cheating as well.

And Japan I admire greatly. If we adopted their business model more, rather than the Western business model, where the management and personnel are all in it together and the gain is shared and the differences between top and bottom are nowt like we have, then we would benefit greatly.

Int: but Japan is having economic difficulties itself.

me: yes, partly again down to the Chinese, partly down to its massively overvalued currency (with the world's highest debt to  GDP ratio, there is no way the Yen should be so strong, but this is where we are sadly controlled by international speculators, who are not elected, rather than by the governments we - and in this instance the voters of Japan - put in place. Summat needs to be done to bring international speculators to heel and make them democratically accountable).

Int: and if things don't change?

me: back to the deflationary cycle. People have no money to spend, companies sell less, they employ fewer people, people are sacked, they spend less, and round and round the circle goes. We cannot afford deflation. We cannot afford to allow ourselves to be squeezed like this. We need intelligent solutions, we need innovative ideas (other people can probably do better on this than I can incidentally).

And we need to throw away the Neo-Liberal text book! That is what got us here in the first place!

Int: but you are not optimistic?

me: no! At the moment it is like trying to cure gangrene with a bent plastic spoon. The rot needs stopping effectively, not being allowed to deteriorate and deteriorate further.

Int: it is a bit of a sour note upon which to end.

me: 'fraid so.

Int: thanks anyway, and good luck.

me: the same to you, we are both going to need it.  

Interview with the author - part 3

Int: back from the second longest commercial break in history. Shall I ask you about Socialism? You are forever critical of Neo-Liberal economics, you don't believe that the "Market Economy" works, so obviously you are a committed Socialist?

me (laughing almost hysterically): you've obviously read some of this blog before - define Socialism!

Int: Yes, I think that I have seen that argument from you as well ....

me (interrupting): One of the reasons that I have become concerned about this blog is that I seem to be constantly repeating myself. To repeat, I would be a supporter of "Socialism" if it worked - any of its 57+ varieties, because there is actually no one trusted model that fits the description. Then again I would be a supporter of laissez-faire so-called "free market" capitalism if it worked for the masses and not just for the financial elite.

Take two examples.

Germany in the post-war years and the boom under the conservative administrations of Adenauer and Erhard - a great example of how to make conservative business principles work for the mass of the population. Not the Neo-Liberal model adopted by conservatives in recent years though. Conservatism is no more a single mode of thinking, application and policy than is Socialism. Adenauer and Erhard remain almost my political idols to this day though, and I am not normally that polite to "conservatives".

Then look at Sweden in the 1940s through to the 1960s under the astonishing Tage Erlander - a  Social Democrat who was in power for 23 years, created a booming economy, built the Swedish state welfare system and saw record low unemployment. I would rate Erlander second to the Adenauer/Erhard tandem as the most significant political success story of my life-time.

They got there by different routes, adopting different policies, but achieved success that can be touched by the people as whole. It isn't so much the political ideology, it is the adoption of a policy approach that was intelligently implemented and made to work. Adenauer and Erlander were re-elected to power several times and never lost an election between them. In an era when we are only too willing to boot out governments no matter what we get in their place, that speaks volumes.

Int: you don't want to quote any current examples? These seem a long time ago.

me: they are. That is the pity, this is the crisis. Nobody seems to have a clue any more. The political class around the world is mediocre, some at best average, some awful, some frankly terrible. There seems to be a situation arising where nobody can do owt to improve things. The choice is holding on by our teeth, or crashing downwards at an unstoppable rate. I would be happy to see improvements in the developing world, the removal of poverty, better opportunities for talented people usw, but most of the progress that may be made in that direction is to the benefit of the fortunate few.

Meanwhile many people in the developed world who never had much (despite their countries "doing well") have been thrown to the proverbial wolves and are serving as nothing but proverbial fodder. Including a large number of people who have worked hard to get qualifications and experience.

Int: but your adopted country at least is doing well.

me: from Germans on Facebook yesterday. There are 2.9 million people here who are unemployed (compare the figure under Adenauer and Erhard, both of who would be turning in their graves). The actual figure is probably closer to 7 or 8 million.

And this is a country that is doing well! Try the ones that are doing badly - like Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and even the UK! You cannot deflate your way out of a recession, you just exacerbate the problems and lengthen the duration of the crisis.

Int: you don't sound too optimistic then?

me: Germany needed another Adenauer. In Merkel it got instead another Kohl. It needs dynamising again, not slow and steady stagnation. Not that the SDP seem to be offering any particularly interesting and innovative solutions.

Int: more on these interesting and innovative solutions when we get back from the next commercial break.

Beer commercials, car commercials, commercials for insurance companies, and DIY stores follow ....

Interview with the author - part 2

Int: Back again after the world's longest commercial break. So where do you go from here?

me: well the choice is living on the street (but my wife won't hear of that), throwing myself in the Main (ditto), or hoping that a real job still turns up, which seems unlikelier by the day, or hoping against hope that summat emerges from my small claims procedures. If those don't get resolved in my favour and fairly quickly, we'll be already humming "the Highway to Hell".

Int (laughing): You're an atheist, but you believe in Hell?

me: I think that we live in summat close to what Hell is supposed to be already. If it doesn't exist in the here and now, it did. I lived in the North of England during the Thatcher years during the 1980s and that was a living Hell. As for Hell after we die - no there isn't one, but we can actually live in summat like one. I think that living in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Gaza would be like living in Hell. Anywhere where there is fanatical belief be it religious or political in fact.

Int: You never seem to have a polite word for Margaret Thatcher?

me: to reword what I wrote on Facebook the other day, she should have become Prime Minister in 1977 instead of 1979 - and in the Falkland Islands not in the UK! And stayed there forever where the Empire loyalist spirit lives on!

Int (shaking head): But surely she made Britain great again?

me: A great what? Casino for the gamblers in the City of London, maybe. And for the rest. Debt culture, speculation and mass unemployment. There was all the talk of breaking the dependency culture. Her government saw a doubling of the rate of unemployment (in places like Manchester and Middlesbrough it tripled). There is nobody who is more dependent than someone who is unemployed!
As for the debt culture, the dependency factor was there as well - and still is. Instead of encouraging sound money principles (only borrow what you can afford to pay back), you were encouraged, in fact often obliged, to borrow way beyond your means with no clear view as to when you could pay it back.
Instead of being dependent upon the government, you became dependent upon private lending institutions. Interest rates were anyway at record levels throughout the 80s (anybody remember interest rates stuck nearly permanently at 12%?), and private institutions usually charge well over the standard rate. The people who had least got stuck with paying most. Madness!

Int: This still bothers you? You haven't lived in the UK for years.

me: It was the start of the road to uncertainty. In a sane and sensible economy someone with my talent and work ethic should always have a place and a reasonable job. As it is, going to Holland and Germany kept me working for longer, but finding a permanent job in those countries after you reach a certain age isn't easy either. Notably my talents seem appreciated in good times and nobody seems to want to know in bad times. Which is why you cannot keep working, why you cannot save for the future and eventually become dependent upon the state like it or not (and I don't).
If we need to end the dependency culture in reality we need to re-establish the concept of full meaningful employment accompanied by the presence of a living wage. This used to be a feature of the political capital of Social Democrat parties across Europe. These days they all seem to have sold out to the Neo-Liberal economic nonsense that is taking us further and further into the abyss.
Check out the German elections later this year. The SPD party leader, Sigmar Gabriel, talks the talk. Their candidate for Chancellor though, Peer Steinbrück, is more in with the banks and the bankers than virtually anyone in the CDU.
Not sure if die Grünen have a candidate for Chancellor this year, but I would seriously hope that people here who do not want any more of Merkel's austerity programme will have a better choice than Steinbrück.

Int: die Linke?

me: not a chance - and have they really freed themselves of the former East German yoke? While Oskar Lafontaine was around they seemed relevant, these days they are nowt more than a fringe party. See RESPECT in the UK if you want a similar example.

Int: Time for another commercial break. Back after yet more beer and car commercials. And don't get too drunk while waiting!

Interview with the author - part 1

Interviewer (henceforth "Int"): Good morning.

astonysh (henceforth "me"): Good morning, Guten Morgen, bonjour, goede morgen ....

Int: ever the show-off?!

me: well it's nice to have summat left to show off!

Int: you haven't been on here much lately.

me: well I had run out of inspiration, and I needed some new ideas. So I took a break.

Int: so what have you been up to?

me: working (not much come in in the last couple of weeks), preparing all the documentation to get the small claims procedures in place so I can try to get back the €2,794 that companies in France and Belgium owe me. And not sleeping as ever. And trying to work out whether the permament job that looked a distinct possibility in December might still happen - though it appears less and less likely by the day.

Int: how come?

me: the PR management interviewed me, liked me, agreed with my assessment that age = experience (and talent), not senility. Looked good. Passed the information onto their technical management who should have interviewed me (and that should have been a foregone conclusion). No interview, no further contact, nowt!

Int: why?

me: you tell me. If the PR personnel did not seem ageist, the technical management looks like it is. In an industry where nobody is supposed ever to get over 35, that is not that surprising. Stupid, but not that surprising. Then there may be the crap that they don't want to give me a position "below my status", wharrever that is.

Int: crap?

me: Of course it is. I am not earning much as a translator, the lack of income and unreliability of certain companies (Juristraduction in Paris, 2BTranslated in Belgium - see the small claims stuff earlier) is destroying what is left of my life. I need an income which equals a living wage. If the job isn't quite where I should be career-wise, that does not bother me. I will still enjoy working in IT on EDI projects. I will still enjoy working in IT and learning other skills. Status is not that important to me these days as it was 20-25 years ago. Getting paid and staying out of debt is.

Int: so it is up at 0415 having breakfast and giving this interview?

me: yes, that's about the size of it. My wife being on morning shifts for the past four days means that the house wakes up early. She cannot understand my insomnia though and seems to like the idea of simple solutions to complex problems, but she is also not stupid. And to use my German word of the moment she is "stur"!

Int: OK, more after the advert break.

Exit to commercials on cars, beer and insurance companies (Willkommen in Deutschland!). More in Part 2.

Changing history

Whenever extremists want the world to appear different from what it was, and hence affect what it is, they have the wonderful habit of trying to change the facts to suit their own point of view.

Hitler and his Fascists did it, the Communists in the Soviet Union did it. Sadly it is even happening in parts of the United States - and they really should know better than that.

And of course extreme Islamists are very much into this. Their particular line tends to be destroy anything resembling a history that they consider "impure". This is not acceptable, therefore we will destroy all the ancient relics related to these unacceptable areas.

So the wonderful Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed in Afghanistan - relics which had stood for 1400 years.

And recently the libraries containing historical works dating back hundreds of years in Timbuktu were destroyed by the cultural extremist Islamist thugs in Mali.

What these individuals brought would not have advanced the people of the towns they occupied - a pre-medieval culture of excessive brutality imposed upon an unwilling people, who were delighted when the French drove them out.

But the works that they destroyed are irreplaceable.

Sadly these morons learn nowt.

If this is Islam, the world does not need it.

And the words that the fanatics must learn and understand. History is not biased or fanatical. It is neutral. It is based upon facts that will eventually be judged by people, men and women, who have an open mind and will examine those facts from all sides and all angles.

Destroying the amazing cultural relics and inheritance of a country, or an area, will not change that. And history also indicates that those that have tried to make the facts fit their own ridiculous views are usually condemned for their actions and beliefs.

How many people these days have a polite word for Hitler or Stalin? The same will apply to the fanatical leaders of this barbaric Islamic cult, great or small. Remember that. History certainly will!

Stories of personal debt

This is another of those articles that will expand as I pick up more data.

I am trying to get an overall picture and not just "label" some countries.

My views on debt are known and expressed elsewhere on this blog. That I do not have a polite word for it is obvious.

First examples are the easy ones to find - I am researching stuff on Germany, the Netherlands, France and other major European countries. I will add details when I find them.

A couple of articles from the UK to start with:

www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/business/worldbusiness/22debt.html

This is from 2008 and things could be a lot worse now given the recession.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDWE60iTAwE

This reminds me of 1971 when the only job that a friend of mine, fresh out of university, could find was as a debt collector (great job, eh?).

People should not take out the debt if they cannot afford it? So what happens to the consumer society? People buy less on credit, therefore people sell less, companies make fewer profits, jobs disappear, people earn less, people then take out debt necessarily to pay the rent and buy food (if their do not live on the street and get fed by charities). This is the ultimate vicious cycle, folks, how do you break it?

Work out how we get away from this. At my age it is perhaps only a short-term problem as I will not live that much longer, but for the generations to come?